The residents at Harbin ARE the staff. I assume Goat was referring to those at the top of the totem pole. I think Harbin struggles a bit with defining an identity and has for some time. In the past, it was mostly a spiritual community, and oh, by the way, we also have accommodations for guests. Over the years, it's become increasingly more centered around being a business and retreat destination for guests and, oh by the way, we also have a spiritual community here. It's an ever-evolving balancing act that requires guests and residents alike to reevaluate and adjust their expectations.

People are drawn to live at Harbin for various reasons, many of which Sensei eloquently expressed. But, they are also "employees" of a thriving business with work requirements. I've owned and/or managed several companies and feel that customer service is the heart and soul of any business. I don't think that some of the residents at Harbin get that they are representing a business. They are just doing what they HAVE to do to live there. Some don't have customer service skills or, for that matter, good people skills period. Instead, they sometimes project an intruded upon energy toward the very people (guests) that make it possible for them to live there in the first place. Still, the vast majority of residents at Harbin are warm, caring, devoted, friendly and fun. The others are doing the best they can.

I love Harbin and consider it home in my heart. It's not perfect, but would I live there again. Absolutely! Go there. Focus on the good. Enjoy the healing waters and beautiful land. Take free yoga classes 3x a day. Have compassion for the residents. Make eye contact and share a smile. Do your own damned dishes in Fern kitchen! Respect and follow the rules (hey, I don't like that word either) and basically, "take the best and leave the rest." Get over your expectations (they always lead to disappointment) of how you think it "should" be and embrace what is. Harbin is just like any other place on the planet... your experience there is what you choose to make it.

Hi Weazie, that's a good point, and you definately have a valid perspective. My gut tells me it has alot do with people being sheep living in a huge media/pop culture mass that I call the herd.

Generally speaking, most people are pretty stupid, and are either unwilling or unable to sacrafice things they want/enjoy for concepts such as principles, values, etc.

I am the kind of person who absolutely will not tolerate being disrespected, cheated, lied to, assaulted, etc. I'm the kind of person who believes "turning the other cheek" only brings a slap to the other cheek as well... And deservedly so. i believe in responsibility to the responsbile. Therefore, when a anyone (including a harbin resident) behaves badly toward me, I am required by my values to confront that behavior, in a manner that I decide is the most appropriate considering the circumstances.

When it first happened, I dismissed it as random stupidity (which occurs all around us all the time). When it happened again, I began to watch/listen to the residents very closesly, as well as the other guests comments about the residents and I discovered what I had been experiencing at Harbin was a systemic condition at Harbin that affects the people who live there like a plague. I also soon realized that many of the guests there are like zombies.... Just going through the motions of what the perceived cultural expectations are there, no different than the way most people do in the larger culture of our country. I discovered that being an "enlightened" sub-culture didn't actually cure it of many of the problems that afflict the main culture, and that it really wasn't very enlightened after all. In many ways it reminded me of the local baptist church.... Their ideology is different, the uniform and the diety is different, but the herd mentality is the same.

Then I found/started reading this tribe, and I discovered just how deep the problems at Harbin really are. The combination of reading what people really believe in this tribe and the experiences I've had at Harbin convinced me I had no business ever going back to Harbin, or ever doing anything that provided them with any financial benefit. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing "against" harbin, I just don't belong there. It's not a healthy atmosphere at all.

I know that I'm not alone in my observations/judgements of Harbin, because everytime I make a post in a discussion with Sensei or Timbo (or both), I get several emails from different people telling me of their similar experiences, and how they would like to post but fear the retaliation and flaming they see me dealing with in here when I do it, and they usually thank me for interjecting some balance into the blind "I love harbin" orgy that seems to whip everyone up into a frenzy of Kum Ba Ya songs and patchouli burning, waitsu massage discussion...

I'd like to thank Michelle for her insight and her opinions on this topic. I really appreciate her perspective and her words. Unfortunately, I think the idea of abandoning all expectations sounds like a great idea in theory, but it's actually kind of misleading... We all have expectations when we go to Harbin, and if we didn't have expectations, there would be no reason to go there.

My expectations when I went there was to leave the world I am normally forced to live in, filled with people determined to use/exploit you for their own personal gain, people who have no respect for you or see no intrinic value in you as a person, intolerant homophobic bigots, lack of self esteam and self discipline, people who have huge egos that are precariously built on stuff that means no one to anyone but theirselves, etc.... To temporarily enter a place where I can be among and connect with people who are spiritually and sexually enlightened, where clothes are used as a tool to protect the body and preserve warmth and comfort instead of a barrier to personal intimacy. Where nudity is not simply tolerated, but is as normal as wearing clothes. Where touch, bodywork, and open, honest discussion is used to enhance our personal relationships with each other, and to discover/form new personal relationships that will last many years and bare lots of fruit.

When I discovered none of my expectations were being met at Harbin, I decided it was time to find a new community that would do a better job of meeting my expectations.

If Harbin ever evolves into something better during my lifetime (before my life takes me too far away geographically), maybe I'll return and check it out, but until then there's absolutely no reason to return.

I hope you all have a great holiday season, and that you and your loved ones are safe and happy. I'm really looking forward to returning home from Iraq in about 3 weeks, returning to my business, my friends, and my dog Di.

Read Giles Goat Boy by John Barth, then we'll talk...

>>>I do have to wonder why you who do not go to Harbin any longer and will not go again are still involved in this tribe?

--->I've already explained that in several threads in this tribe.

>>>Not not being the case and the fact that you have continued to post here for a long time shows that you do want to be part of the community

--->It really doesn't matter to me what you infer from my being here.

>>>For anyone to go to Harbin for a couple of days at a time and expect to be welcomed in as more than a guest I find unrealistic since that is exactly what you are.

--->You must back that up. Quote for me where I have complained about or suggested that I should be treated as more than a guest.

If you are interested in a discussion that results in understanding (which I doubt you are) then you must approach it from an intellectually honest position instead of a position based on false accusations.

Well, I don't go *FOR* community, but they manifest community better than the intentional community that is Harbin. And the beer is quite yummy, and very reasonable.

I have has repulsive interactions with both the staff and residents and harbin, and I have also experienced both wonderful and highly conscious interactions with the staff and residents at harbin....
What is it that makes harbin so different, when it comes to dealing with people ? It's not a utopia....
People are simply mirrors, and every interaction is showing me an internal part of myself.... As a sovereign being - I take full responsibility for my actions, observe, forgive, accept, integrate - and move forward...